Monday, February 3, 2025

kno-why #489 - the "why"

In the previous post, we peer-reviewed the "know" part of Kno-Why #489. Here we review the "why" part.

Original in blue, my comments in red, embedded quotations in green.

The Why

The location of where Joseph Smith obtained the golden plates which he translated by the gift and power of God is well known.21 

The irony of this sentence is breathtaking. The location of the hill is "well known" only because Oliver Cowdery described it in detail. But Scripture Central specifically rejects what Oliver wrote about Cumorah in the same paragraph!

Note 21 cites the Saints book, vol 1, pages 20-42. Note 13 on page 23 of Saints in turn cites the only known specific references to the location of Cumorah, consisting of Lucy Mack Smith's quotation of Moroni, Oliver Cowdery's quotation of Moroni, and Oliver's own explanation of the location of the hill. Two refer to Cumorah (which the Saints book censors) while the third explains the history was "written and deposited not far from" Joseph's home, which obviously contradicts the narrative that it was written in Mesoamerica and transported somehow to New York.

1. Lucy Mack Smith quoted what Moroni told Joseph: "the record is on a side hill on the Hill of Cumorah 3 miles from this place remove the Grass and moss and you will find a large flat stone pry that up and you will find the record under it."

https://www.josephsmithpapers.org/paper-summary/history-1834-1836/91

2. Oliver Cowdery repeating what Moroni told Joseph: "[Moroni] said this history was written and deposited not far from that place..." 

[Note: Saints gives a link to archive.org (but not to the specific page), so I include that here but on the next one I give the link to the Joseph Smith Papers.]

https://archive.org/details/latterdaysaintsm01unse/page/80/mode/2up?view=theater

3. Oliver gave the most detailed description based on his personal experience visiting the hill.

You are acquainted with the mail road from Palmyra, Wayne Co. to Canandaigua, Ontario Co. N.Y. and also, as you pass from the former to the latter place, before arriving at the little village of Manchester, say from three to four, or about four miles from Palmyra, you pass a large hill on the east side of the road. Why I say large, is because it is as large perhaps, as any in that country. To a person acquainted with this road, a description would be unnecessary, as it is the largest and rises the highest of any on that rout. The north end rises quite sudden until it assumes a level with the more southerly extremity, and I think I may say an elevation higher than at the south a short distance, say half or three fourths of a mile. As you pass toward canandaigua it lessens gradually until the surface assumesits common level, or is broken by other smaller hills or ridges, water courses and ravines. I think I am justified in saying that this is the highest hill for some distance round, and I am certain that its appearance, as it rises so suddenly from a plain on the north, must attract the notice of the traveller as he passes by.

At about one mile west rises another ridge of less height, running parallel with the former, leaving a beautiful vale between. The soil is of the first quality for the country, and under a state of cultivation, which gives a prospect at once imposing, when one reflects on the fact, that here, between these hills, the entire power and national strength of both the Jaredites and Nephites were destroyed....

By turning to the 529th and 530th pages of the book of Mormon [Mormon chap. 6] you will read Mormon’s account of the last great struggle of his people, as they were encamped round this hill Cumorah.... This hill, by the Jaredites, was called Ramah: by it, or around it pitched the famous army of Coriantumr their tents.

https://www.josephsmithpapers.org/paper-summary/history-1834-1836/90 

Other references to the hill are vague, such as this: "Convenient to the village of Manchester, Ontario county, New York, stands a hill of considerable size, and the most elevated of any in the neighborhood." (Joseph Smith—History 1:51)

After the early Saints left New York, they didn't return. Brigham Young and Heber C. Kimball joined the Church a couple of years later. Kimball visited Cumorah and said he still saw the embankments around it, but he relied on others' descriptions to know which hill was Cumorah. It was the same with Brigham Young and everyone else who visited the hill. Thus Oliver's specific description is the reason why the location is "well known," yet Scripture Central rejects Oliver's statements of fact about Cumorah.

As we see in the very next sentence.  

Whether that was the same location as the final destruction of the Nephites remains open to discussion. 

It's only "open to discussion" among those who reject what Oliver, writing as Assistant President of the Church with first-hand knowledge, declared was a fact. 

the fact, that here, between these hills, the entire power and national strength of both the Jaredites and Nephites were destroyed

Elder John A. Widtsoe of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles recognized this when he wrote in 1950 that “the hill from which the Book of Mormon plates were obtained is definitely known. In the days of the Prophet this hill was known among the people as Cumorah. This is a fixed point in Book of Mormon later history. There is a controversy, however, about the Hill Cumorah–––not about the location where the Book of Mormon plates were found, but whether it is the hill under that name near which Nephite events took place.”22 

Observing that there is a controversy does not constitute repudiating what Oliver Cowdery declared was a fact. We all recognize there is a controversy, but the controversy is about whether or not we accept what Oliver said was a fact as corroborated by the other historical sources (and extrinsic evidence).

Note 22 asks readers to "compare" the speculation of an M2C promoter:

Compare Palmer, “Cumorah,” 1:347. “Because the New York site does not readily fit the Book of Mormon description of Book of Mormon geography, some Latter-day Saints have looked for other possible explanations and locations, including Mesoamerica. Although some have identified possible sites that may seem to fit better, there are no conclusive connections between the Book of Mormon text and any specific site that has been suggested.”

Obviously Palmer's framing is subjective. For example, Palmer believed Cumorah was in a land of volcanoes, even though the text of the Book of Mormon never mentions volcanoes. We all recognize that "some Latter-day Saints have looked" elsewhere because they reject what Oliver taught. They reject what Lucy reported, what David Whitmer reported, and for that matter what Joseph wrote in D&C 128:20, where Moroni referred to Cumorah before Joseph obtained the plates. "

Glad tidings from Cumorah! Moroni, an angel from heaven, declaring the fulfilment of the prophets—the book to be revealed. (Doctrine and Covenants 128:20)

Elder Widstoe further explained that, “As far as can be learned, Joseph Smith, translator of the book, did not say where, on the American continent, Book of Mormon activities occurred.”23

This is a red herring fallacy because the New York Cumorah/Ramah does not determine where the other events took place. Furthermore, it was Oliver Cowdery who published Letter VII, with the assistance of Joseph Smith, and they both had personal experience with Moroni, the repository, and the messenger who took the abridged plates from Harmony to Cumorah. Nothing in Elder Widstoe's article repudiates what Oliver wrote about Cumorah.

Much more important than precisely where the Book of Mormon hill Cumorah may be located is what transpired at a “hill of considerable size” near the town of Manchester, New York in the early morning hours of September 22, 1827 (Joseph Smith–––History 1:51–59). 

This is axiomatic for all believers.

President Thomas S. Monson testified of “the momentous events that unfolded” on that occasion:

A plowboy prophet took a horse and wagon and, in the dark of night, rode to this hill, where he received an ancient record from the angel Moroni. In a remarkably short time, this untutored young man translated a record detailing 1,000 years of history and then prepared the Book of Mormon for public distribution. . . . The visitor often comes [to the Hill Cumorah] with an attitude of curiosity. He or she departs with a soul touched by the Spirit of the Lord. . . . I bear an apostolic witness that Jesus is the Savior of the world and that He and His Father appeared to the Prophet Joseph Smith to usher in this dispensation of the fulness of times.24

Since the Book of Mormon presents itself as a historical text, it is appropriate to ask and remain open to questions about its ancient geographical and historical setting.

This is a good point. When Oliver wrote Letters IV and VII, he was responding to claims, such as that in Mormonism Unvailed, that the Book of Mormon was fiction. He explained at the outset that his essays on Church history would be based on facts. Yet the scholars at Scripture Central specifically reject the facts that Oliver presented, solely because of the way they interpret the text. 

“Out of diligent, prayerful study, we may be led to a better understanding of times and places in the history of the people who move across the pages of the divinely given Book of Mormon,” Elder Widtsoe allowed.25 

This is exactly right. He also wrote,

"Out of the studies of faithful Latter-day Saints may yet come a unity of opinion concerning Book of Mormon geography."

That's what I hope to see. And if not a unity of opinion, at least a unity of clarity, charity and understanding that accommodates all faithful views and empowers everyone to make informed decisions based on all the facts.

The question for every Latter-day Saint interested in this topic is whether the foundation of our study is the specific teachings of the prophets, declared as facts as in Letter VII, or our own private interpretation that repudiates those teachings.

However those facts may appear to any individual, all readers of the Book of Mormon should focus on its witness of Jesus Christ and the eternal truths it teaches, which is indisputably its primary purpose.

Absolutely.

Further Reading

Rex C. Reeve, Jr. and Richard O. Cowan, “The Hill Called Cumorah,” in Regional Studies in Latter-day Saint Church History: New York, ed. Larry C. Porter, Milton V. Backman, Jr., and Susan Easton Black (Provo, UT: Brigham Young University, 1992), 71–91.

Sidney B. Sperry, “Were There Two Cumorahs?” Journal of Book of Mormon Studies 4, no. 1 (1995): 260–68.

Journal of Book of Mormon Studies 13, no. 1–2 (2004). [This entire issue of the journal is dedicated to topics surrounding the Hill Cumorah.]

Book of Mormon Central, “Where Did the Book of Mormon Happen?” KnoWhy 431 (May 8, 2018).

Jed Woodworth and Matt Grow, “Saints and Book of Mormon Geography,” online at www.history.lds.org

For a response to this reference, see 

_____ 


For other perspectives on this, see:




  • See further the quotations from Church leaders collected and analyzed in Roper, “Limited Geography and the Book of Mormon,” 255–260; “Joseph Smith, Revelation, and Book of Mormon Geography,” 17–22.
  • 18. Palmer, In Search of Cumorah; John L. Sorenson, An Ancient American Setting for the Book of Mormon (Salt Lake City and Provo, UT: Deseret Book and FARMS, 1985), 44, 347–351; Sidney B. Sperry, “Were There Two Cumorahs?” Journal of Book of Mormon Studies 4, no. 1 (1995): 260–268; David A. Palmer, “Cumorah,” in Encyclopedia of Mormonism, ed. Daniel H. Ludlow (New York, NY: Macmillan, 1992), 1:346–347; John E. Clark, “Archaeology and Cumorah Questions,” Journal of Book of Mormon Studies 13, no. 1–2 (2004): 144–51, 174; John L. Sorenson, Mormon’s Codex: An Ancient American Book (Provo, UT: Neal A. Maxwell Institute, 2013), 142–143.
  • 19. Rex C. Reeve Jr., “Hill Cumorah,” in Encyclopedia of Latter-day Saint History, ed. Arnold K. Garr, Donald W. Cannon, and Richard O. Cowan (Salt Lake City, UT: Deseret Book, 2000), 481.
  • 20. F. Michael Watson, Secretary to the First Presidency, fax from the Office of the First Presidency to FARMS dated April 23, 1993, online at FairMormon: “The Church emphasizes the doctrinal and historical value of the Book of Mormon, not its geography. While some Latter-day Saints have looked for possible locations and explanations [for Book of Mormon geography] because the New York Hill Cumorah does not readily fit the Book of Mormon description of Cumorah, there are no conclusive connections between the Book of Mormon text and any specific site.”

For a full account of this, see


  • 21. See Saints: The Story of the Church of Jesus Christ in the Latter Days (Salt Lake City, UT: The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, 2018), 20–42.
  • 22. John A. Widtsoe, “Is Book of Mormon Geography Known?” Improvement Era, July 1950, 547. Compare Palmer, “Cumorah,” 1:347. “Because the New York site does not readily fit the Book of Mormon description of Book of Mormon geography, some Latter-day Saints have looked for other possible explanations and locations, including Mesoamerica. Although some have identified possible sites that may seem to fit better, there are no conclusive connections between the Book of Mormon text and any specific site that has been suggested.”
  • 23. Widtsoe, “Is Book of Mormon Geography Known?” 547.
  • 24. “Special Witnesses of Christ,” Ensign, April 2001, 19–20.
  • 25. Widtsoe, “Is Book of Mormon Geography Known?” 597.



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